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Scammed out of firearm purchase

(self.legaladvice)

submitted by PackingH3AT

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[–]Nickyweg 583 points584 points  (3 children)

  1. You're under 18
  2. You tried to illegally import a weapon from a country the US has SEVERAL trade restrictions with
  3. As of July 2014 that gun is illegal to import into the country

You're in a lot of trouble. You need an attorney I'd say

[–]darwinianfacepalm 187 points188 points  (2 children)

People like OP deserve jail time.

[–]JoosedUpAF 629 points630 points  (0 children)

Nah. He's a fucking moron, but needs education, not jail time.

[–]GuyWithDogpost 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Lol they will get it too

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Original Post:

Author: /u/PackingH3AT

Scammed out of firearm purchase

I bought a Saiga-12 online, and the seller ended up scamming me saying that he tried to ship but the gun was caught in customs, and that there's nothing he can do. He's an American seller, but he imports from overseas, so I guess he was shipping directly from wherever the manufacture was. I'm pissed because I paid a lot of money for this. Is there any legal options for me? The seller said that in purchasing I indirectly agreed to his Terms of Service which was that he wasn't responsible for refunds if the gun doesn't arrive. Who would I report this to in order to get a refund since me and the seller are not in the same states.

[–]5http 456 points457 points  (0 children)

Doing the Lord's work, Location Bot.

[–]oregon_guyQuality Contributor 595 points596 points  (150 children)

A bitcoin firearm purchase where the firearm is being imported, and you bear the risk of it never arriving? That sounds like a scam waiting to happen.

Was it supposed to be shipped to an FFL, or directly to you?

[–]Cypher_BlueQuality Contributor 424 points425 points  (0 children)

That's a risk you take when you are attempting to illegally purchase firearms.

OP has no recourse to regain the money he lost in an illegal transaction.

[–]mf19911 193 points194 points  (0 children)

Mate, you're fucked.

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[–]Omnifox 69 points70 points  (0 children)

hcebot ban felon.

[–]bigshitpoppin 109 points110 points  (0 children)

If you want an honest answer, cut your losses and take the 50% that's still in escrow and be on your way. You should know already that anything purchased online through "put in popular tor marketplace here" is subject to not making it to you. Anything you buy there is likely illegal, otherwise you'd go to Walmart. It's a risk you take and you can't go bitching when it doesn't arrive. Cut your loss, act dumb if anyone comes to your doorstep, and do better research about your sellers before you purchase.

[–]TheTerminator68 46 points47 points  (111 children)

Did you pay with a credit card? If so file a charge back, if not, how did you pay?

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 28 points29 points  (110 children)

Bitcoins. The site I purchased on has escrow but his listing was for Finalize Early 50% so even though its disputed right now, I'm still out 50% of what I paid

[–][deleted] 345 points346 points  (42 children)

Kid, you're fucked and the whole issue of where the gun currently is should not be among the top 15 things you're concerned about. You're violating federal law by buying guns online and are paying in a crypto-currency. You're firmly in ATF world. The fact that you were stupid enough to buy guns that were shipped from a country that is constantly targeted for trade bans from a manufacturer that's on the shit list of a number of people really exposes you to a high degree of risk. If all you're out here is a gun, consider it a win. You're firmly in felony territory.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 39 points40 points  (41 children)

Hat is ATF? The last gun shipped before fine however. I didn't buy it from Russia in case you were thinking it was Russia. The seller said he shipped from Europe/Asia. They didn't buy it from the actual Russian manufacturer.

[–]RamadyQuality Contributor 970 points971 points  (3 children)

You know what's in Europe and Asia?

Russia.

[–]Cypher_BlueQuality Contributor 362 points363 points  (0 children)

Oh, man... how did I miss this last night?

I have tears in my eyes...

[–]Laureril 127 points128 points  (1 child)

Well, I mean, Turkey too... but mostly Russia.

[–]LupineChemist 190 points191 points  (0 children)

God. Russian guns from Turkey is probably even worse at this point. That will raise jihadi flags just on that alone.

[–][deleted] 275 points276 points  (36 children)

Feel free to Google ATF. You bought a Russian firearm from an international dealer illegally in an online transaction that you used a cryptocurrency to pay for, right?

You've committed a felony.

[–]Omnifox 232 points233 points  (0 children)

You've committed a felony.

I believe we are at an order of magnitude higher than A felony.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The seller was 100% American. It was just that he had to import the second gun bc he was out of stock for that model.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] -1 points0 points  (33 children)

In my state, it's legal to buy guns from friends without permit.

[–][deleted] 295 points296 points  (31 children)

No, it isn't. You're really woefully uninformed about what is going on here. You bought a gun from someone who is defined as a dealer while you were underaged and you did so without a FFL transfer. Irrespective of friend-to-friend transfers, the term "dealer" is a term of art that is specifically defined. The fact that "he was out of stock for that model" tells me all I need. If you're arrested, demand an attorney and say nothing more. You will likely put your parents (who are almost certainly not in the picture) through some devastating hardship with this one.

You're fucked and you were probably dumb enough to have the package shipped directly to your door with your name on it.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 17 points18 points  (30 children)

If I hide the gun I currently have, then would I be ok even if the second gun is caught in customs?

[–][deleted] 267 points268 points  (28 children)

You need help that goes beyond /r/reddit. You actually need a real attorney to figure this one out.

No, it wouldn't be okay because they have your freaking illegally purchased firearm. They don't need Count #2, they have you dead to rights on the shotgun.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 19 points20 points  (27 children)

But there would be no proof that I actually made the purchase. There is only that a gun is being shipped to my house and in my name so wouldn't they need to prove that I actually made the purchase?

[–]RamadyQuality Contributor 90 points91 points  (0 children)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "no, not remotely."

[–]GoneCountry87 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Dude, you're under 18. You can't even buy an air rifle by yourself.

[–]TheTerminator68 -19 points-18 points  (66 children)

Sounds like you got scammed, if you have his information you could take him to court, but I suspect you might not have that or if you do it might end up being too costly. Depending on your state laws and the value of the transaction it might be viable to sue in small claims court. Although from the sounds of it, a bitcoin transaction smells of a scam.

Edit: Also if this was not a legal transaction you should not attempt to pursue legal action as it would not get you anywhere and could make you worse off than you already are.

[–]tyrannosaurusregina 201 points202 points  (6 children)

Taking someone to small claims court because they didn't complete an illegal shipment of firearms (can't drop-ship firearms from overseas to anyone but a Federal Firearms Licensee) seems like the very definition of foolhardiness.

[–]TheTerminator68 39 points40 points  (5 children)

I was assuming this was a legal sale of fire arms and that the shipment was not a drop shipment but rather an agreement between the buyer and the seller to sell a legal firearm with all the proper permits and such. If the transaction is illegal in some way or another, then there are no legal actions that can be taken to remedy this.

[–]PackingH3AT[S] -6 points-5 points  (58 children)

I'm sure it's a scam now. I've purchased from this seller before though and the purchase made it through then but I think he's selectively scamming now. In the off chance though, it's possible that the gun was caught at customs but I doubt it

[–]Cypher_BlueQuality Contributor 55 points56 points  (57 children)

Was he sending it to you directly, or to an FFL?

[–]PackingH3AT[S] 8 points9 points  (56 children)

Direct

[–]Cypher_BlueQuality Contributor 135 points136 points  (55 children)

100% scam.

That's illegal federally. You can't have firearms shipped directly to you. You attempted to commit a federal crime, which is going to hamper your recovery efforts.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]pestilence 59 points60 points  (2 children)

    Obvious troll is obvious

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